Read the full transcript from our Q&A with Dallas County Judge Clay Jenkins

Friday marked a critical moment in Texas’ response to the coronavirus and the disease that causes COVID-19. Restaurants and retail stores began opening under a plan created by Governor Greg Abbott, effectively ending Dallas County’s stay at home order. We wanted to know what questions you had about this shift.

We heard from a lot of you.

Nearly 100 people wrote in with questions. Many of you had questions about Dallas County’s plan to enforce the governor’s order. Others were cautious about what steps the county is trying to take to mitigate the spread of COVID-19 as certain measures are relaxed.

So we reached out to Dallas County Judge clay Jenkins to answer some of your biggest questions. He spoke with The News’ Nic Garcia for about an hour Monday.

Below is the full transcription of their conversation.

Nic Garcia: Judge, thanks so much for joining us today. I want to start off by asking you, what did you see this weekend? How do you feel North Texas handled loosening of restrictions on social distancing?

Clay Jenkins: Well, I think most North Texans are making some really good decisions. Simply because something can be opened doesn’t mean North Texans are opening those things. And even when something is open, I think North Texans are making good decisions on staying safe and avoiding those unnecessary trips.

Garcia: Yesterday, Dallas County announced 234 new confirmed cases of COVID-19. It was a single day high. Can you provide us some more context about those cases? I’m thinking particularly, we know that there’s a lag in testing, right? Do we have any idea of when these folks were tested? Over what time period? Because, you know, in method this increase was happening under district Staying home orders. What sort of context should we be thinking about when we see these new record-high numbers?

Jenkins: Well, the doctors think that there was a loosening of personal decisions around Easter and Passover, where people got together as families. And then once the governor announced that things would be open, it sends a signal to people to where they loosened things up. So for instance, in your paper yesterday, Nic, we saw that before the governor announced only 35% of people thought it would be a good idea to have relatives from outside their house come over. But after the governor announced, they went up to 52%.

So we’ve seen more movement over the last week, not only in the open businesses, but in the unopened, you know, things were people have said, ‘Well, if that’s open, it might be okay for me to do this thing.’ Of course The more you have movement, the more we bump into each other and the more likely a spread is.

EDITOR’S NOTE: Judge Jenkins incorrectly referenced the data from a Dallas Morning News-University of Texas at Tyler poll. Before last Friday’s reopening of some businesses and public spaces, just a slight plurality of Texans (46%) were comfortable going to the homes of relatives and close friends, and 38% weren’t. With the prospect of reopenings in sight, the margin for those at ease with such home visits grew to 52%-35%.

PUBLIC HEALTH

Texans wary of flying because of coronavirus, cautious about in-person shopping, Dallas News-UT Tyler poll shows

BY ROBERT T. GARRETT

Garcia: Gotcha. I’m wondering, you know, one of the things that I’m struggling with a lot — I think a lot of other people are struggling with — is that you’re putting out one set of data. The mayor is setting out another set of data. The governor is looking at another set of data.

I’m wondering, is there any communication between the three governmental agencies to get on the same page about what data really matters here? First of all, will we see Dallas County begin looking at the confirmed testing rate, which is what the governor’s you know, key leading indicators seems to be?

Jenkins: You know, there is a move to try to synergize the data, so we’re all looking at the same factors. So, I know I have asked that the Public Health Committee — which I want to point out, Nic, these are not, you know, five people that I chose, or however many there are. This is the head of infectious disease at the Baylor hospital system; the head of infectious disease at the UT Southwestern hospital system; the president of the Dallas County Medical Society. I want to point out none of those people had I ever even met before this, alright. And then the head of epidemiology at UT Southwestern, who I had met during West Nile virus before; the CEO of Parkland Hospital, the Public Health Authority, Dr. Phil Wong; and probably other doctors who I appreciated when serving us instead of working on that as well.

So that group of people have trained their adult lives for this moment. Right? They are— all medical doctors are valued, but just as you wouldn’t see, you know, an oncologist for your pediatrician needs of your child or vice versa, you wouldn’t see a pediatrician for cancer. Epidemiologist— epidemiology is the study of disease. And infectious disease is what this is. Public health is what we’re dealing with.

But what we’ll — what we’re looking at here, and I think what is important for your readers, people understand they can go to the movies. But the question that a lot of people have is, hey, ‘when is it safe for me to take my family to the movies? Is that now or later?’

Some of the doctors are trying to come up with, with this agreed set of standards that all the metro area infectious disease, epidemiology and public health doctors will use is what level of decline is sufficient for you to go get a haircut for you to go to the movies for you to you know, resume yoga class.

And so it’s not that we’re trying to override the governor. He may say, for instance, that it’s okay for you to go to the movies right now, but there are a lot of people who want to know when isit actually safe according to the doctors who are most knowledgeable about epidemics, public health and infectious disease, for me to take my family to the movies. So we’re working on that and we’re hopeful the governor… this by the way, that what the doctors are working on tracks, verbatim I think, what the CDC is saying.

So, understand there are doctors — you can find doctors and there have been some on the internet… For instance, there’s a doctor, a retired doctor who was a radiologist who is now with a conservative think tank who believes that ebola is no worse than the flu. Get doctors in a huge group and you can find differences of opinion. But you won’t see much difference of opinion, Nic, between the CDC, the epidemiologist, infectious disease doctors, and the public health officials and those doctors. So that’s the metric that we’re working on so our citizens know, based on what these guys say, here’s what they say, of course you can, you can go to the movies right now. But if you want to know what the doctors say, it’s going to be whatever they say.

Garcia: Sure, I guess I’m just thinking of a lot of readers. You have the New York Times today pointed out that the number of cases— we’ve flattened the curve as a nation, right? But for the last few weeks, we’ve had a steady tick of about 30,000 new confirmed cases a day. I’m sitting at home, our readers are sitting at home, wondering what’s got to give, right?

If the social distancing isn’t seeing, you know, we’ve flattened the curve, but we’re not seeing a decrease. What else do we have to do to get the start seeing things return to normal? It sounds like you’re talking with doctors and working across multiple different metro regions to kind of identify some of those key indicators, is that right?

Jenkins: That’s right. So for instance, one of the talking points that I’ve heard from people is, ‘well, the reason that you have more positive tests is because there’s more testing.’ Well, at least on the government side — we don’t have complete visibility into what’s happening at Quest or or other labs — but on the government side, we have about the same amount of tests we’ve had for the last 10 days.

But testing will be something that people will increasingly question its validity. But I don’t think they can find a way to question the validity of hospitalizations, deaths, ER visits. You know, if you want to question the validity of these things, then your conspiracy theory has to be that the medical examiner is faking the test for Covid deaths or the hospitals are faking the numbers of people in their hospital. And I don’t think there are very many people that will jump that far down the rabbit hole.

So it gives the public a pretty reliable metric to look at. And it’s not necessarily,Nic, that if we see the numbers inching up on hospitalizations, we say, oh, but we’re still okay, because we have this many more hospital beds. And what that tells us is: this is bad. Even if we have enough hospital beds, and if we keep going that way, it doesn’t just go like this. Unfortunately, all the curves show that when it’s going up and you keep doing things to open up, it starts going like this.

So you’re watching closely for that inch up to know what you need to do. And similarly you’re watching for that inch down, because what the CDC and all the doctors who have trained their adult lives for this say is when you add two weeks of decline, 14 days of decline, then you can open up some things. Fourteen more days, you can open up some more things.

Now, the governor may have already opened up those things. For you and me, and many of the readers — if your poll is directly on the front page of your paper, more than half the people are not as interested in when they can do it as when they should do it. And so rather than having a politician, like me, or the governor tell you when you should do it, let’s go ahead and get the local doctors and the CDC who are watching North Texas every single day tell you when their best guess is, based on the science, of when you can do those things.

Garcia: Yeah. So really quick before we get to reader questions, I know today’s Monday and historically we see a little bit of a dip because labs are closed, but do you have any indication if we will see another record day in either deaths or new confirmed cases?

Jenkins: No. No indication of what we will see on today, as we sit here on calls, all morning since daybreak.

Reader questions

What we know now

Garcia: Sure. All right, getting into some reader questions and before we do that— we got a lot of reader questions. We can’t get to all of them, unfortunately. But we did try to group them into themes and into topics that were most popular.

And maybe unsurprising to you, judge, there were a lot of skeptics out there. And one of the very first questions we have is from Rick Atkinson, who wrote: on March 22, officials estimated that 5000 Texans would die, even with stringent distancing and that our hospitals would be overwhelmed. What is your perspective now? And do you have any regrets about you using the COVID Act now, model or predictions that you made during the early stages of the pandemic?

Jenkins: So, several questions there Rick. Thanks, for your questions. Part of your question, as we lawyer say assumes a fact not in evidence. Okay. We did not say if we do strict social distancing and the safer at home order, that our hospitals would be overrun, Quite the contrary, what that model showed, and what our local doctors told us is that if we did that, we would have an outcome similar to what we have now, which is we would have sufficient bed and ventilator capacity so their hospitals would not be overrun.

Now, another part of your question is about which model we used. We use the model that at the time, the Dallas County Medical Society president and the infectious disease doctors — it’s a broader, even broader group than that now — at the time, they said was the best model that was out there for illustrative purposes, this is a world wide thing but if it boiled down to the state, not the local i think but the state. Now, what you have to understand about the novel Coronavirus, novel means new and so people are making their best guesses in medicine based on the limited information that they have at the time, the medical models are better today than they were on March 22. And there’ll be quite a quantum leap better on June the fourth than they are on May the fourth.

As far as, you know, regrets: At this point, Rick, I don’t have any regrets. We acted aggressively and decisively to put in place a safer at home structure that has left North Texas in a better position than almost any other metro area in the United States. Now, at the end of these things, we have what’s called a hot wash and we we look back, and I’m sure that I’ll see things — because I’m making dozens and dozens of decisions today — I’ll see things that you know, I should have done or could have done differently. But there’s just not that time for introspection right now, right? Because of the tremendous amount of decisions that have to be made.

Garcia: Wendy Perez, following up on models is asking what epidemiological models is Dallas County using right now to monitor cases. And specifically she wants to know is the centennial surveillance monitoring being used.

Jenkins: That I’m afraid that is more of a Phil Huang, or Dr. Pearle type of a question. But as we, as Nick and I, talked about — it’s Wendy, right? Garcia: Wendy Perez.

Jenkins: But Wendy, as Nick and I talked about earlier, we’re moving more towards modeling looking at emergency room visits, hospitalizations, ICU admissions, and there may be some other things. I’ve seen the document, and hopefully when they finish it, we can put that online.

Garcia: All right. She also wants to know if there are any estimates of how many people may have been infected with COVID-19 but who are not accounted for in the numbers because they were either asymptomatic or didn’t make it to a hospital?

Jenkins: We don’t have… unfortunately, Wendy, we don’t have really any good numbers on that. We are trying to push to do what’s called a serology test for UT Southwestern that might give us a glimpse into that. That hasn’t happened yet. So when we get that we might have a better feel.

One of the challenges — and there have been some studies out there where they use a test, finger prick blood test that checks your IGG and your IGM. These are antibodies in the blood. And from that they try to extrapolate or guess as to whether or not you’ve had COVID. And fortunately, according to Dr. Fauci, and Dr. Birx, those tests are highly inaccurate. And they continue to think they’ll have a breakthrough and be able to have one that actually does for COVID.

Largely what those tests are testing for now is have you ever been sick? So people are sick, but it doesn’t necessarily mean that they havi COVID. So we don’t really know that. One other thing that Dr. Pearle, who is our local head of infectious disease for UT Southwestern, was telling me the other day because I was asking, ‘you know, what about herd immunity if we get this Then we’ve got 20% of our people are already sick, you know, isn’t that a good thing?’

And she said, in order to get to herd immunity, you’re looking at somewhere between 60 and 70% of the population that has had the disease and has antibodies that are protected, or at least somewhat protected.

Two problems here. If you look at any study, any reliable study that the infectious disease doctors would look at, it can’t see where our rate of infection would be higher than 14 or 15%, if it was that. So that’s well below 70. And she pointed out that the World Health Organization has told us that the evidence does not suggest yet that there is a protective factor in having the disease. You can’t get it again. I hope, you know, it turns out that that is true. And by the way, Wendy, that is true of all the other Coronaviruses. So hopefully it will be. That’s where we are right now.

How are we using what we know?

Garcia: Edna Ruano would like to know, how is the data being used to provide direction to the public health department in the county to be proactive in outreaches to vulnerable populations?

Jenkins: Great question, Edna. So we’re using that data to try to help the people that are most vulnerable and figure out where we need to be next. I use the analogy of a burglar. We don’t want to go to where the burglar was last night as much as we want to go to where the burglar will strike today.

So for instance, even though less than 300 of our over 4000 cases of Coronavirus are in nursing homes, nursing homes have accounted for 40% of the deaths. And so even as we’re sitting here today talking, Edna, there are vans from Parkland taking tests and going out to nursing homes, and testing people at their bedside, in the nursing homes, to try to find out if they’re sick and give them help faster, isolate them from the other patients faster. So we can curb that death.

We will soon be announcing a partnership with Walmart for four more test sites, we use the Community Health Needs Assessment and we have our data group, the Parkland Center for Clinical innovation, tell us where those sites need to be. And they’re not always just in places that you would think of as high-need places. And I’ll give you an example: of the four sites that we’re going to be opening with Walmart, one of them is in Rowlett. You wouldn’t normally think of Rowlett as a place with high uninsured or with vulnerable populations, but I guess they’re far enough away. And there’s different reasons why that makes sense to go.

Garcia: Gotcha. Thank you. And then Rhenechia had a similar question and kind of bringing together a couple of themes on the Community Health Needs survey and vulnerable populations. What does the county or does the county have a 30/60/90 day plan

or longer to address long, you know, stubborn inequities, underlining issues that cause these populations to be disproportionately affected?

Jenkins: Yeah, it’s Ray?

Garcia: It is Rhenechia.

Jenkins: I’m sorry, Rhenechia. Rhenechia we do. We’re constantly working on that. We were talking about this this morning in our morning call. So we’re looking at what we can do 30/60/90 days. You know, for instance, we’re pushing when it comes to health care, we’re pushing the testing into the areas with vulnerable populations, into places that are somewhat healthcare deserts. They don’t have a lot of primary care doctors because they don’t have insurance for these working people. Therefore, they don’t have access to getting a test from their own doctor.

We’re also looking at things like, you know, assistance with rent, assistance with mortgages for those who are most strapped, assistance for childcare for folks who are strapped, assistance with payment for restaurant workers and barbers and folks who are out of work. We’re working along with the DISD and the city of Dallas, in ways that we can expand broadband so that poorer folk, not poor folk, but people making under $20 an hour and live in areas with poor broadband. We can give them enough of a decent broadband. So they continue to do their work from home if they’re in office, tech job like, you know, receptionist or sales. So we’re looking at all those things.

And then going out longer, we’re looking at what does this teach us about the need to improve healthcare? And I think probably the most glaring learn from this is that our health care system needs to be modernized. We need to modernize the way we trace diseases that take you know into account the types of technology that other countries are using to better the trace.

We need to look at the fact that 20% of the people who work for a living in Dallas County don’t have — and by the way, 20% not talking about the undocumented, 20% of citizens in Dallas County who work for a living, don’t have access to healthcare. And that’s always, you know, been a problem. But now I think everyone can see what a huge problem it is for all of us, when people don’t have access to testing and healthcare. And so, you know, we’re looking at how do we move Texas towards a Texas plan to set that portion of the federal money for Medicaid expansive, so that people who work full time can afford health insurance as one of the necessities of life. So all those things are things that are on our mind every day.

Where are the numbers for recoveries?

Garcia: Shifting a little over to testing, one of our most popular questions from readers is why doesn’t Dallas County report recovered cases?

Jenkins: Well, it’s a great question. It’s very difficult to do that scientifically. So you can take an arbitrary number and you can say, after 30 days, or whatever day and that’s what others are doing is you’re saying, ‘well, if you’re out of the hospital, you’re not dead. After a certain number of days, we call that recovered.’ Okay. But recovery depends on the individual.

So I’ll give you an example. I have a friend who lives in the Bronx. I’d say he is under 40. Met him when he worked for the last presidential administrative. This guy runs, you know, half marathons. He is a fairly healthy guy. He has had it and is still sick with it. He’s just now able to get up and walk out of this apartment, walk around the block. He’s going on 60 days.

There’s another coworker of his from that past administration, who lives in Manhattan. He tested positive for it after being sick for a couple of weeks, and tested positive again for it on day 56. So at least for those two people, if I were to just give you an arbitrary number, like others are doing and say, ‘once you’re out of the hospital, you’re well after a week or two,’ it wouldn’t be accurate. So since we can’t give you an accurate number, we’re not giving a number.

Now that doesn’t mean obviously, that of the older people who tested positive all of them are sick, right? You know, hopefully the vast majority of those who had it last month have recovered. I know one friend who has fully recovered and is actually serving on our economic advisory board and help me make decisions here. So there’s one, right? As we hear them, what I try to do is let people know that good news instead of trying to tell you it’s 2,110 or whatever it is. Sorry.

What is going on with tests or the lack thereof?

Garcia: Sure. Lacey Cornali — I apologize if I’m butchering that last name — but Lacey wants to know if there is any information regarding extensive widespread testing when that might be available. I know we talked a little bit about Walmart. And maybe just to be to reframe that question a little bit more. Are you hearing any concerns or any sort of systematic problems with individuals who might not meet the federal criteria for the free testing at these drive up sites, getting testing from their private doctors?

Jenkins: Yeah, the problem with testing is that Texas ranks dead last, obviously, in testing per capita. And you know, so if we don’t have a test, even if you have money to pay for it at the doctor, you won’t get it. And as we talked about earlier, 20% of the working population is uninsured. We are the most uninsured metro area in the state.

And so those [unintelligible] we’re trying everything we can to increase that testing. I had cell phone calls, you know, one-on-one calls this weekend, with both of our US senators John Cornyn and Ted Cruz asking for them to do what they could to help loosen up reagents and test kits for UT Southwestern and Parkland. We’ve been asking the feds in the state for those kits. For this will be we’re going into our fourth week now without any real relief there.

Concerns that we may be a victim of our own success and moving so aggressively and quickly that when compared to Chicago, and Detroit and Los Angeles, you know, other metro areas, Houston, we are in a better place. But we need this, right? Because as you open up businesses, you’ve got to test around that. You got to know where those outbreaks happen so you can get that sick person and isolate them safely. Get them the care that they need before they get other people sick.

So we need to do everything we can to get more testing. But testing, I believe, is a problem for just about anyone, much less a problem for the insured and the well connected. But we don’t have enough testing. So that’s a problem across the board.

Garcia: Do you — I mean, part of Lacey’s question was, why is there a shortage? Why is Texas dead last in testing? And if I’m hearing what you said correctly, it sounds like the federal resources are going to places that have a clearer need than North Texas. Is that why you believe we have fewer federal tests coming in?

Jenkins: Yeah, I think that is— that’s part of it. Other states have joined in consortiums to add more effective procurement than we’ve had thus far in Texas and there’s a variety of reasons but I’m not trying to point fingers at anyone.This is where we are, right?

And so it’s challenging because what the scientists tell us at CDC and here locally is in order for us to do that loosening, for you to make those decisions and bracing up, loosening up, and doing those things that the governor says are now illegal. You want to see two weeks of decline, and you want to see sufficient testing, unfortunately, here in Dallas County and North Texas. We haven’t seen even one week of decline, certainly not two, and dead last is not sufficient testing.

Garcia: So on that note, Bill Ritzer asks, What is the Dallas County goal for the number of people that need to be tested for COVID-19 per day to show the 14 day continuous flattening of the curve? Understanding that there will be many more positives since you are testing more people. Is the testing for COVID-19 free for all residents? A lot to unpack there? I guess it goes to the bigger question of the rate of positive tests, right? Is there a goal you want to see around that number?

Jenkins: So what we’re told is that an encouraging number is around 7% of the test that you administer being positive. We’re, depending on whose numbers you look at, we’re currently at 13 and a half, or 15, or somewhere in between there and the number of percentage that test positive. But this isn’t even a number that the county can prove this is the governor’s number.

But again, as we said earlier, our doctors here are moving away from tests that— we’re going to report the testing, give you all the information we can give you about that. But our doctors are moving towards the admissions in the hospital ICU, ER visits, the things that the CDC is now saying are more accurate. So that’s really what you and I want to watch, as we’re thinking about, you know, how we’re actually doing.

Because you’re right. As you do more tests, you’ll have more positive. So if you just look at the test in a vacuum. and you said, Well, last month, we had a, you know, on a certain day we had 150. This month, we have 350. Well, you’d have to look at how many tests are being run. And that’s hard information to get from all these private labs. When you look at hospital admissions it’s real easy.

Are the tests free to everyone? Well, they are at the drive thru sites. So I think a lot of other hospitals will work with you. If you have insurance it’s covered in your insurance. If you don’t have insurance, it’s free at the drive thru sites. It’s also free to everyone. So whether you are a citizen of Dallas County, or or a surrounding County, you can go get tested, whether you are an American citizen, or not an American citizen, you can get tested. Look, its public health. So we want to know what’s going on with the public. Also, if you don’t have legal immigration status, the testing is not something that counts against what’s called a public charge rule, which is used to try to deny you a green card. So this is not counted towards that. And your public health or your private health information is not turned over to immigration authorities. So if those two sites, Ellis Davis and AAC it’s free. If you have insurance and give it to them, they’ll take that and the feds will bill your insurance. But whether you have it or not, it’s free.

How do we know if things are getting better?

Garcia: I want to unpack a little bit about the hospital data. You know, one of the things that I’m trying to understand here is why is that a really good measurement for us to be gauging when we really have a lot of asymptomatic people running around spreading the virus? You can’t measure asymptomatic people if they’re not in the hospital, right? So is that a part of the calculus that Dallas County and other Metro regions are really gauging right now?

Jenkins: Yeah, well, now keep in mind, you’re asking an entrepreneur turned county judge why that is. You know, the CDC and the local infectious disease and public health doctors say it is. But I think the reason for that is we know that a certain percentage of people who have COVID-19 will end up having a worse time of it than others.

And so if you see a 10% increase in the number of people that are hospitalized, it’s an indicator that you’ve seen some percentage, probably a 10% — I wish there was a doctor on this call — increase in the underlying folks. But remember this on asymptomatics, because people say, ‘well, yeah, you tested asymptomatic. Those grocery store workers, that finally got tested that were sick, they’re asymptomatic. What’s the big deal?’

Well, here’s the big deal, right? They’re asymptomatic today doesn’t necessarily mean they’ll be asymptomatic tomorrow. It doesn’t mean that that person who comes by them in the grocery store who has auto immune deficiency, or diabetes or one of these other underlying conditions or is elderly, if they get it from that person will also be asymptomatic.

So asymptomatics are very important to find particularly asymptomatics in a congregate setting business. If you’ve got an asymptomatic, you know, worker at the mall or the grocery store, you want to find them, you want to isolate them, give them the care that they need, before they get other people sick.

So, when will things get back to normal?

Garcia: Sure. We have about 15 minutes left. So I really want to make sure we get to this next group of questions, which is about when will things reopen? I know you don’t have a crystal ball judge, and a lot of factors still remain unknown, but overwhelmingly people were very curious about this.

Our first question is, what plan is Dallas County— what plans are Dallas County making for the upcoming November election regarding issues such as preparation for increased voter by mail applications, and in adapting in person voting locations for social distancing and cleaning?

Jenkins: Okay, sure. So when will things be open? I suspect the governor will announce more openings on May the 18th.

What are we doing on elections? We have an item on the agenda for Tuesday to flip the order of the Travis County Judge on our website, this will allow both from the political parties to mail out to their voters, and let them know that they can vote by mail. That will also allow anyone who wants to request a mail ballot to request it. And there’s a place on there, you know, to explain why you qualify. And according to the judge down in Travis County, which is the law of the land right now, fear of COVID and I’m probably going to get this wrong, but it words to the effect of, the fear of COVID and the unreasonable risk of harm to you and the election workers would allow you the opportunity to vote by mail even younger than 65. And before COVID were not considered to be disabled. I think they’re treating that, the COVID, as a form of disability for this election, then change it forever.

But, remember also, Nic, we have an election in July, there is runoff from the partisan primaries — the democratic and republican primaries. So you know, I

think pretty soon is when you need to, to request your ballot for that, because you know, the deadlines and unfortunately sitting on the front or on the phone with you. I don’t know exactly when those deadlines are. They should be at our website, DallasCountyvotes.org

Garcia: Andrea Alvarez and Karthik Venugopal want to know, ‘when will the Dallas county clerk’s office be open?’

Jenkins: So my understanding is the clerk’s office is open for purposes of online filings and online matters. As far as when employees will be returning and to what degree and how they’ll do it. There’s a team of— we have set up with Darryl Martin, who’s our county administrator; Doug Bass, who’s the chief of Homeland Security emergency management; and Dr. Shulte is a second-in-command under Dr. Wong of Dallas County Health Service, and then they’ll be looking at the way for those employees to return to work.

Let me say this about returning to work to people real fast: It’s going to be so important that as people are returning to the office, that there’s that trust there, you need that trust with your employees and with your employer, in order to succeed, and the public’s gonna have to trust in that relationship, employer to employee in order for your business endeavor to succeed. So, it’s a great time, if you’re an employee of a business, to have those open discussions. It’s a great time, if you’re an employer or have a business, to have those discussions and really listen to the fears and concerns of your employees. Will have a lot of grace towards each other and really think about how do we build that trust. So people know when they come to work, they’re going home, in a relatively safe, you know, environment in a relatively safe environment work and so when they go home they’re not going to affect Nana. That’s gonna go a long way to really being successful.

Garcia: J. Branden Snyder had a similar question about county courts and when normal hearing resumes. When will normal hearings resume? I think that’s the same answer to the previous question. There’s a committee looking at that

Jenkins: There is. I’m on that call in a minute.

Garcia: Right. So J Branden, stay tuned. Um, we got a lot of questions about reading about weddings rather, Sarah Pate, Kelly Buock, and Jamie Woodard are all asking for clarity on larger social gatherings. Are they allowed to be limiting the number of people that can congregate conferences, any sort of idea on timelines of when we could start seeing some of those larger social gatherings come together?

Jenkins: They’re not currently allowed. Okay. But what we’ll be looking at with the doctors is when we see that decline when those will be allowed here in Dallas County. And the governor might come in tomorrow and say, ‘hey, I say, counties don’t have the authority to stop these large social gatherings’ like he did with church. He hadn’t done that yet. But with church, he said, you know, if there’s a church out there that wants to have a meeting with 1000 people, that they can’t. And he hasn’t done that yet with weddings, but he could. As far as where we are right now is we’re working with public health and those infectious diseases and everything else seems to let us know when that would be safe to do that.

Garcia: All right, we got another question. Janet Frey asking if — I’m sorry. Michelle Carpenter — wanting to know if Dallas County plans on putting any more protocols in place for restaurants, or beyond the occupancy rate?. And the second part of her question is, will there be free testing for restaurant workers similar to grocery store clerks in big box employees?

Jenkins: Okay, yes, the city of Dallas and the county of Dallas — so this is counting by all of the gut, the governor had one requirement 25% occupancy rate. And then he had a group of strong suggestions: wear your mask to the extent possible, you know, a certain seating and social distancing. So we made all that mandatory here in Dallas County. And so in Dallas County, the restaurant inspectors can go into places where it’s not done, they can ask them to do that. And so that’s that one.

Let’s see the second part of your question. What is the second part of the question?

Garcia: Michelle wants to know will restaurant workers be getting free testing some low on —

Jenkins: Yes. Michelle. So right now the CDC has not opened up to restaurant workers because the CDC is open — this is where [unintelligible] I fought with, I lobbied aggressively

with various people up and down the chain to make that happen because those grocery store and big box store workers are [unintelligible] the critical infrastructure they were included in. They have not included restaurant workers yet, but we probably should find a way to do that. I’ll be pushing for that because it’s the same concept. If I’m sitting, if I’m in close contact with hundreds of people a day I’m more likely to get sick. Now I’m more likely to get you sick.

By the way, this is why, and you may be one of these unfortunate folks who either lose their unemployment or has to go back and work at a restaurant. You know, I hate that and I disagree with it. But if that’s your situation, I suppose this advice doesn’t apply to you. But for everyone who is considering going to a restaurant, the governor’s strong recommendation — and this isn’t an order in Dallas, but that the strong recommendation is to do takeout, don’t go sit in a restaurant with a waiter who has been around hundreds of other people. And you know a table that’s been touched by hundreds of people. Just get your food and take it home. That was the recommendation following the CDC and all the health doctors. But the governor leaves you the discretion to do things other than what CDC and doctors recommend.

Garcia: Janet Frey and several teachers actually are asking if you’re having any conversations with Dallas ISD to consider allowing students and educators who are vulnerable, in vulnerable groups, to continue with online learning throughout the pandemic? Do you have any sway over anything the school districts here in the Dallas County area are doing or advising in any way?

Jenkins: In order to resume in versus glasses you have to submit your plan to my office of emergency management 72 hours before any, you know, in person learning. Now, this doesn’t include certain testing of certain populations. That probably doesn’t relate to the question, but that’s handled by the TVA. But so we do have that and yes, I’m in constant communication with DISD. My last call with DISD, before this call, would be 15 minutes before this call.

Final thoughts

Garcia: All right, judge that does it for our reader questions. We’ll give you the last word. Anything you want to add or think readers of, and viewers should know?

Jenkins: Just say this to you: You have been incredible. You have stepped up to the challenge. You’ve made those good choices. You know, most of you are wearing your mask when you go to the grocery store. And the peer reviewed articles are indicating that it’s increasingly important that when we’re out in these businesses, we wear the mask and the most of you are choosing to make a shopping list and limit those trips outside of your home to highly traffic businesses. And that’s a great choice.

I know a lot of you are enjoying the beautiful weather, probably hear the birds chirping behind me and we’re getting out and exercising but when we are getting out of exercising, what I’m seeing is a good social distance in between family units of six feet. You’re a big reason why we are having success right now. But just like a golf shot, or baking, if you rush it, you ruin it. So you’re going to have the opportunity to rush it if you choose to. But if you’ll follow the medical science, follow the specialties, that they’ve prepared their entire adult life for this moment we’ve got a great chance to lower this down for two weeks and have sustainable recovery where we not only can open our businesses, but we can keep them open and we can have less debt and less disease. So thank you, for all that you do. You know, staying home to the extent possible, social distancing and masks. That’s what flattens the curve. So let’s keep doing it.

Garcia: Judge, thank you so much for joining us today. Enjoy the birds in your backyard and we’ll be talking to you soon I’m sure.

That’s it for our conversation with judge clay Jenkins. Thank you, to everyone who wrote in. We’re sorry, we couldn’t get to all of your questions, but we hope this conversation clarified some of the bigger questions around the North Texas’ response to the Coronavirus and COVID-19.